ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
More Bodies Discovered in Cleveland House of Horrors; Jackson`s Doc: He`s Innocent
Aired November 4, 2009 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the stomach-churning nightmare escalates in Cleveland. Police have now discovered more rotting bodies and a skull at the home of a convicted rapist. And they say the gruesome body count could rise. Will there be more victims?
Cops are now tearing apart his home wall by wall, looking for more bodies, checking vacant homes in a six-mile radius. Meantime, they`re scrambling to identify these women. How did he continue his reign of terror for so long without anyone suspecting?
And shocking new insight into the Michael Jackson molestation charges. A Jackson insider drops a bombshell, shining new light on the case. You will not believe what Jackson`s doctor said Michael was doing in front of children. But will this mind-boggling new information actually save his image? We`ll take a look.
Also, inside the mind of a twisted sexual deviant. The Halloween madman who led police on a nationwide manhunt is speaking out from behind bars. Tonight, we`ll play his head-spinning comments on air. He tortured a woman for 13 hours on Halloween night. Now, four years later, he`s talking to "Inside Edition," and you`re not going to believe what he`s saying.
Plus, it`s happened again. The secret life of another celebrity sportscaster exposed. Jim Nantz, perhaps the most popular sports commentator in the country. But now a nasty divorce is revealing some of his dark secrets. As his 26-year marriage collapses, we now learn he had an affair with a woman two decades his junior. And you won`t believe the whopping amount he has to pay his wife.
ISSUES starts now.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, horrifying new details about a serial killing spree in Cleveland, as the first of at least 11 victims is identified. Police say convicted sex offender Anthony Sowell has been living with rotting corpses of at least 11 women. He allegedly strangled most of them to death. Investigators are now tearing that house apart wall by wall, piece by piece, looking for more hidden bodies.
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CHIEF MICHAEL MCGRATH, CLEVELAND POLICE: Our homicide unit along with the Cuyahoga County coroner`s office, went back to the scene, which has been secured ever since day one. And during the course of their investigation, throughout the day, we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the backyard and a skull in a bucket in the basement.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sowell currently faces five counts of murder, but that number certain to go up. Investigators say Sowell hid his victims` bodies all over his property. We`re talking the basement, a crawl space, a shallow grave in the backyard.
Neighbors say the hideous stench -- you can imagine, 11 bodies -- was enough to knock them over, but apparently, nobody knew what it was.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell was recently out here. You could smell the smells coming down the street. We used to think that it was coming from out of Ray`s Sausage, but you smell these smells. And I live right there, and I used to be in the house, like, "Oh." We used to come out here like, "Ah, the smell just be horrible," but I didn`t know there was no dead bodies. You just think it was the sewer system.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. Owners of the sausage company next door even went so far as to replace sewer lines and grease traps thinking they might be the cause of the awful smell.
It all raises new questions about why, why, why this house of horrors wasn`t discovered earlier. Officers had checked on Sowell on September 22, but somehow, they didn`t investigate that horrific odor.
Then two weeks ago, neighbors reported a naked woman had fallen out of Sowell`s second-story window, but the woman didn`t press charges. So again, how many missed opportunities were there to stop this killing spree?
I want to hear your take on this nightmare. Call me from home. Call me at 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
Now straight out to my fantastic panel: Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator and director of Defend University; criminologist Casey Jordan -- there she is. Noted criminal defense attorney Michael Cardoza. Great to have you, Michael. And investigative journalist Michelle Sigona.
Michelle, what is the very latest?
MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: The very latest in this investigation is there has been one victim who is identified, Jane. Her name is Tanya Carmichael. She actually went missing November 10, 2008, from the area.
And at this point, since her husband, one victim identified, what investigators released just a couple hours ago is they have five reference samples from family members who have come forward, so they don`t have enough reference samples to match up with some of the other DNA from some of the other bodies.
So they need that at this time, so they`re calling out to the public that, if you do have a family member that`s missing in that area, to come forward, talk to detectives to see if you are a good match so they can collect that particular DNA sample.
As you mentioned, Anthony Sowell was arraigned today, and he did face -- he does face five counts of aggravated murder, including some other unrelated charges on that. I do have a timeline, a very detailed timeline at MichelleSigona.com. You can check that out whenever you get a chance.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, did he say anything in court, Michelle?
SIGONA: He did respond to the judge. The judge asked him if he could afford an attorney, and he could not afford an attorney. I don`t know the exact verbiage, but I did watch that clip earlier today.
So he does have a public defender. The public defender says that he has medical -- some medical conditions. He has heart problems, takes medication. He has a Pacemaker. He`s been unemployed for two years. He`s been collecting unemployment. So that`s why he`s been going out, collecting scraps, selling them or taking his unemployment and taking that money to be able to live inside the house.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Cardoza, his public defender asked for a psychiatric evaluation. Give us the possibilities as a result of that.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly, the possibility, the No. 1 possibility, would be not guilty by reason of insanity. Is he insane? And that standard is, did he know right from wrong?
Clearly, there`s something mentally wrong with him. Normal people don`t do things like this. What the psychiatrist will be looking at, certainly, will be to give him mental tests, to talk with him, but more importantly, they will look at the facts of the case.
I mean, here`s a guy that takes bodies and stacks them up to the point that they`re rotting. And they can smell it all over the neighborhood. But for the sausage factory, you know, they would have been there a whole lot sooner.
So is he insane? I suggest he probably is. Will a jury find him not guilty by reason of insanity? No, because the case is too emotional, and people don`t want to take the chance of putting a guy like this in a hospital where he might get out some day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s analyze this character. Sowell allegedly tried to lure women right from his own neighborhood. One woman told ABC`s "Good Morning America" she was almost one of his victims. Listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t feel safe. There was something telling me don`t go in his house.
How he was in love with me, how he wanted me to go up to his house and drink with him.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alcohol appears to be a common thread in these attacks. Other women, including a woman who said he raped her in September, said he`d invite them in for a drink. Once inside, he would suddenly become angry for no reason and violent and, apparently, tried to go at them at their neck. Most of these women were strangled, most of them with some sort of ligature, which means a cord.
The one woman said, Casey Jordan, that he came after her with an extension cord. What does this -- all of these details tell you?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, first of all, it`s really Criminology 101, not even that interesting beyond the fact that it`s going to be driven by power, control and probably a sexual thrill. It`s not going to be anything incredibly deep with this particular character.
But the more important question is how did he get away with it for so long? He picked vulnerable women, women who had a history of drug abuse or addiction, alcohol addiction, and that makes them extremely vulnerable, because very often, they can disappear for a few weeks or a few months. Their families are concerned.
But remember, even if you have a series of missing women, if you have no bodies that are recovered, no crime scene to investigate, the police, all they have are concerned family members based on, you know, reporting missing women who have a history, perhaps, of addiction and disappearing. So he picked his victims very carefully, women who wouldn`t be missed or, if they were missed, wouldn`t really be taken that seriously as a loss.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is why we have something here on ISSUES called the "War on Women." Eleven bodies, and so far, they are all female, what we can tell. Only one of them has been identified: a 52-year-old woman who was somebody`s mom and somebody`s daughter. And this is unconscionable, and it really is the war on women. It`s the -- it`s an ultimate example.
Why did cops take so long to arrest Sowell and discover this house of horrors? You know what? On September 22, a woman called cops to report she was drinking with Sowell inside his home when he suddenly got angry, punched her, choked her, and took an extension cord, put it around her neck and raped her. This is what she`s claiming. She says she managed to get out.
Thirty-seven days passed before police went to his home to arrest Sowell, and that`s when they found the rotting corpses inside. Thirty- seven days.
Now, I have to ask you, I know you`re representing the cops, and I`m a big believer in cops, but Steve Kardian, why did it take 37 days to check out this rape claim?
STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, Jane, let`s take a look at the fact in just about every state that I`m aware of, that rape is not a mandatory reported crime. So if you get a victim that`s hesitant, that is reliant [SIC] to come forward, that is reliant [SIC] to cooperate with investigators and you have a district attorney`s office that says, "Well, she`s not cooperative; she`s being unreliable right now," it very well could take that long.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s true, Michael Cardoza, that the woman in this case was hard to reach, and she didn`t show up for an appointment, but here`s my point. If she`s saying that, "Hey, this is the house where it happened," and they know, because believe it or not, they visited early that day, doing a spot check on him at that house, because he`s a registered sex offender. If they know, wow, a registered sex offender lives there, she`s claiming rape. Maybe we got something to check out.
CARDOZA: Jane, that`s really nice, but I mean, the police in most metropolitan cities, I mean, Cleveland, they`re busy. You have a victim or an alleged accuser that comes in, says, "You know, I was raped." And then she disappears for awhile. Even though it may be a sex offender, what are the police to do? Check this out all the time? It`s really -- no, it`s really difficult.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got -- I got for you.
KARDIAN: And they may tip her off.
CARDOZA: You can`t do the blame game all the time. You can`t do that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think we have to analyze it. I`m not blaming. I`m asking questions.
CARDOZA: I agree with that. Analyze is fair. But you`ve got to look at the accuser. Was she cooperative? And by the way, D.A.`s offices don`t get involved until there`s an arrest. So they`re certainly not to blame.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. That`s what we`re talking about.
KARDIAN: They`re usually brought on board right from the beginning.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on this...
CARDOZA: Not all the time. That`s not true. Not all the time.
KARDIAN: Violent sexual offenders? I would say yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on this hellish nightmare in a moment.
We`re also taking your calls. I want to hear your theories and your thoughts: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, a very bizarre new twist in the Michael Jackson molestation case. Why his doctor says some of M.J.`s head-spinning habits could actually help save Michael`s reputation. You won`t believe this one.
But first, how does a serial killer go unnoticed for so long? Cops say Anthony Sowell had at least 11 bodies on his property, and neighbors would gag as the stench of death poured out of the house. A councilman says the complaints started two years ago.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We received a phone call from a resident that said, "Councilman, there`s a foul odor that`s coming from across the street, and it smells like a dead person. Not dead meat."
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DEPUTY CHIEF EDWARD TOMBA, CLEVELAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: Never seen anything like it. So it`s very challenging from an investigative standpoint, from an emotional standpoint.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Imagine what these police officers are going through having to go through that home. I dare say they will probably have post- traumatic stress disorder from having to deal with the overwhelming stench and the depression of dealing with -- count them -- 11 bodies thus far.
That was a veteran police officer in Cleveland describing what it`s like to comb through a home where 11 corpses were hidden, the bodies so badly decomposed police struggling to identify them. They`re desperate for family members of missing women, please come forward, they say.
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DR. FRANK MILLER, CUYAHOGA COUNTY CORONER: People have a loved one missing from that area, we`d like to have them contact the Cuyahoga County Coroner`s Office. Our number is 216-721-5610. Or they can contact the Cleveland police to make arrangements to provide a DNA sample.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police have only identified one victim so far. Her name is Tanya Carmichael. She was 52 years old when she disappeared from the area a year ago. Police say her remains were buried in Sowell`s backyard.
Carmichael`s daughter says her mom struggled with drug abuse and often hung around in Sowell`s neighborhood. And it appears that he would invite women in the area into his home, allegedly, to have a drink, and then cops say he would attack them violently, sometimes with an extension cord.
Phone lines lighting up on this one. This is just a horror story in so many ways. Lorraine in Ohio, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Yes. About the case in Cleveland, good evening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening.
CALLER: Yes. About three years ago, there was an incident on my train. I was a rail operator. And I had to go downtown Cleveland to the sex crimes. And actually, when we finished talking about the incident on the train, the sex crimes detective had showed me some pictures.
And she told me then there was a serial rapist on that side of town, but these ladies were not found in that home. One lady, I guess he thought he killed her, but he didn`t. And she made a composite sketch, and the composite sketch that she gave me is this gentleman that`s on this TV right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is -- when did this all happen, ma`am?
CALLER: It was about three years ago. And I told her that -- you know, I read the paper and watched the news every day, and I never heard anything about anyone running around on the East Side that was raping women.
And you know, I don`t believe that they didn`t know what was going on. I just get the impression that nobody really cared, you know. Anybody that could kill this many people, they didn`t care. It should have been more of an investigation for that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, Michelle Sigona, he is quoted as saying, according to one of his victims who escaped, "Oh, nobody`s going to go look for you. You`re just a crack expletive, and nobody is going to care."
SIGONA: And that`s the unfortunate part of this, is that he really picked his victims and really picked who he wanted to prey upon. Even -- there was an October 20 incident, Jane, and they announced this yesterday during -- during the press conference, the police chief did. And he said that this woman fell off the balcony. The fire and EMS came. This is just October 20th of 2009.
They picked her up. They also picked up Anthony Sowell. They both went to the hospital together. He said that she was his girlfriend and vice versa, and that they were partying: they were doing cocaine; they were drinking; they were hanging out. And that she was looking for her keys and fell off the balcony.
So this is a little bit of insight into his lifestyle and the kind of -- the kind of activities that he was partaking in.
And possibly -- and what the investigators say is that some of these women may not even have missing reports on them. So we do know of some that do actually have missing person reports, but there could be others, unfortunately, that we just don`t know who they are.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: and we have to leave it right there. Thank you to my fantastic panel. We`ll stay on top of this story
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